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Spawner economics synopsis

MrFishh29

New member
Below you will read the money making strategies on this server and how I think spawners need to be changed. I know this is not the format but I tried to give plenty of reasoning and examples to explain why something needs to change. Any grammar or spelling mistakes you find just try to work through this isn't a uni paper that I'm try harding.

Farming : It's boring as all get out. If you want to be rich from farming on this server here is what you do.

  1. Go to Tesla’s kingdom and see how they build a wheat farm specifically for harvester hoe use.
  2. Spend hours placing dirt in the shape of squares
  3. Spend hours hoeing the dirt
  4. Spend hours placing the seeds
  5. Buy every harvester hoe on the /ah and from every player shop
  6. Sit in the water column going up and down left clicking the harvester hoes.
  7. Wait for the wheat to re-grow
  8. Repeat step 5, 6, and 7 for as long as you can before hating life
  9. Boom! You are now on your way to being rich
Some Farming Logistics :
  • One 25 use 3x3 harvester hoe sells for about 10k on /ah at the moment
  • One click of a 3x3 harvester hoe is about 9k - 13k
  • A 3x3 25 use harvester hoe can make you 225k - 325k
  • People Sell 100 use or 1000 use harvester hoes for cheap as well
  • A 3 chunk by 3 chunk wheat farm from bedrock to sky height makes about 3-4 mil per harvest and uses about 300 uses from harvester hoes.
Farming is linear income however, kingdom levels increase exponentially in cost meaning farming has diminishing returns relative to the increase in kingdom spending

Anyways, yes the profit is there and it's a great way to start making money early game but it's so boring and tedious, literally 0 fun in my opinion.

Spawners Pits : This is an end game strat for this server, the most inclusive way to make money.

Multiple ways to make this system work

The First
  1. Get spawner cores
  2. Get fragments
  3. Make a spawner
  4. Slap that thing on the ceiling
  5. Let the mobs fall and die
  6. Use chunk hoppers to collect the loot
  7. Use sell chests to sell the loot
The Second
  1. Get spawner cores
  2. Get fragments
  3. Make a spawner
  4. Slap that thing on the ceiling
  5. Grind gems in the isles or buy them from other players
  6. Purchase the kingdom upgrade for hoppers
  7. Place hoppers on the ground to collect the mob loot
  8. Link the hoppers to a crap load of chests to fill with mob loot
  9. Use sell wands to sell the loot
Plus and Minus Of Each Strat (+ and - is subjective to your point of view, im speaking from a players point of view not an owners point of view)

Strat One - easier to afk
+No need for lots of chests
+No need for lots of hoppers
-Must buy perk keys to get chunk hoppers
-Must buy perk keys to get sell chests
-Sell chest takes a 20% tax

Strat Two - harder to afk
+Don't have to spend IRL $ on perk keys
+No 20% tax
-You will cap out your kingdoms hopper use fast
-You need tons of sell wands
-Limited by hoppers
-If chests fill up you can't make anymore money and you actively lose money when entities clear overflowed loot


What was happening :
As many of us know or now know, spawners didn't have to get repaired. This made the mob pit extra overpowered for the time being but still not perfect.

Here's the thing, the economy responded to this, everyone was quiet and didn't say anything about their spawners rightfully so BUT the prices of cores and fragments shot up. Two months ago a fragment sold for 100k when there were less of them in existence. As of me writing this a spawner frag is worth a min of 250k and a max of 350k. Cores are even crazier, a Tier 5 CORE sells for 10 mil right now.

Running the Mob Pit Without Repairs (A cycle for a spawner is 50k uses)
  • A tier 5 core = 10 million
  • 9 spawner frags at 250k = 2.25 Million
  • This means a tier 5 spawner just to forge is 12.25 million
  • Tier 5 mob loots sells for $100
  • One cycle for a tier 5 spawner makes 5 million
  • 2 1/2 cycles to break even on a tier 5 spawner
  • If you afk you spawner for 24 hours a day it'll take about 1 1/2 - 2 weeks to complete ONE cycle
  • In order to break even on a tier 5 spawner you need wait 3-5 weeks if you are afking it for 24 hours
What Is Happening Now
Every cycle we have to use fragments to repair the spawners. From what I have gathered it costs between 6-11 frags and a min of 250k and personally 500k in $ to repair a spawner.
Let's say it takes only 8 frags and 250k per repair on average and I'm using the lower end of the numbers. Every cycle I'm now paying 2.25 million just in repairs. Using what we know from above.

  • Tier 5 spawner costs 12.25 to forge
  • Tier 5 spawner makes 5 million per cycle
  • Tier 5 Repair costs 2.25 million per cycle
  • Tier 5 Profits 2.25 million per cycle
  • It takes a tier 5 spawner 5.4 cycles to break even
  • It takes 8 weeks min to break even on a tier 5 spawner if you afk 24 hours a day and repair it every cycle
My Opinion on How to Fix This
  • Increase Frag drop rate in isles
  • Leave Core drop rate the same in isles
  • Decrease the amount of frags it costs to repair a spawner
  • Decrease the amount of $ it costs to repair a spawner
A Few Things to Think About
The Spawner Menu does not work at the moment so spawners are useless after one cycle. This issue will probably be fixed soon but figured it should be mentioned while I'm here.

Why are we spending more frags to repair a spawner than it actually takes to forge it.

A Core should be rare, that is the piece that changes the value.

The server knocked the ball out of the park with the isles, that is this server's biggest win in my opinion. Make me want to grind it! I don't care to go in there and get farming and mob drops, I'm there for the frags and cores PERIOD. The other tools and armor pieces are just bonuses to help me in the next isles. I actually can't wait to see the next levels of the isles and the new mobs.

Let's say the server implements the fixes above : If I have a big mob pit set up and I need loads of frags to repair it ; Two plans of action here.
  1. I have enough kingdom members to go grind the isles and get enough frags to repair my spawners.
  2. I don't have enough kingdom members to grind the isles so I buy frags from people. Do you think the other big kingdoms are going to sell me the frags that they grinded for or bought? Probably not, so you know who is going to sell me frags? All the smaller kingdoms who are working their way up to having a mob pit. These are the same guys going into the isles to grind gems so they can upgrade their kingdom hoppers or mob drop rate or spawners allowed.
If I want to be active and play more I run strat one and if i want to be afk more often I would run strat two and help the smaller guys grow. I have personally made many people millionaires by selling frags to me.

The Farming and Mob pit is a balance and I understand that. Play on the servers strength and that's the isles.

Tesla has around 800 spawners of assorted value and we were just hitting the 1 million per 5 minutes but you have to subtract 20% because of sell chests. 800 spawners didn't even make us a mil every 5 minutes. Everyone knows how hard we have been grinding, #2 on the isles leaderboards and we were the first kingdom to set up player shops for cores and frags.

Other kingdoms have mob pits as well, that is why farming is important. Consistent money comes from the spawner pit and if a kingdom wants to jump up in money they go harvest the farm. Tesla has both and we think it's the strat. We began sharing our findings with other kingdoms and in my opinion people were happy and more importantly the economy was super stable in the big scheme of things.

Additional notes to add

An increase in frag and core value translates to an increase in isles value
An increase in isles value translate to and increase in value of the gear necessary to grind isles at the higher levels
This means custom enchant books, netherite, vaultables become far more valuable
These all require player trading and make up the backbone of the servers non farming based economy

Kingdom levels are virtually worthless, they deliver no return on investment for a kingdom after a certain level
Minebucks are undervalued. I could buy more minebucks from players than I would win from the monthly leaderboards. Meaning the only incentive to grind monthly leaderboards is clout

Current frag drop rate according to isles drop percentages comes out to about 10 to 20 frags per hour this would hardly sustain a mob pit that makes substantially less than ours, and would not allow players to keep up with the exponential cost of kingdom levels

This model for afking mandates that players pay real money to the server or pay substantial amounts of in game money to other players to sustain their mob pits and is an overall plus to the server and its economy.
____
We have run a few more tests on the server and looked into a few other situations, somethings are not in this thread but this is already long. We are open to and welcome any questions or conversations anyone would like to have about this server and our findings.

If the owner of the server reads this it would be nice if he acknowledges the issue. This is something that has changed the server in a big way and has made many question continuing to play.

We wish everyone the best
MrFishh29 and Jroc_baby
 
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GaigeMC

Member
I myself am only starting to work on putting up spawners and what not just now seeing has all the top players have around 800M each and now im building 5x5 farms for my hoe just starting out building these farms. I have like 30 spawners in total placed and their not making me much money. 45k whenever their filled, each chest. And 300k with the tier 5 ones but i only have a few of those because its hard to make those high tier spawners.
 

Pinguinooo

Administrator
Administrator
Asgard Noble
Asgard Thane
Asgard Jarl
Asgard Monarch
The Spawner Menu does not work at the moment so spawners are useless after one cycle. This issue will probably be fixed soon but figured it should be mentioned while I'm here.
I haven't read the full thread yet (I will) but I quickly want to mention that the spawner menu works fine, the texture for the confirm menu is just broken. The confirm button is invisible, but it still works (you simply have to hover over the slots to find it).
 
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MrFishh29

New member
I haven't read the full thread yet (I will) but I quickly want to mention that the spawner menu works fine, the texture for the confirm menu is simply broken. The confirm button is invisible, but it still works (you simply have to hover over the slots to find it).
That is good to know thank you.
The point of the economics still stands true, it is simply to expensive to repair spawners.
 

GaigeMC

Member
That is good to know thank you.
The point of the economics still stands true, it is simply to expensive to repair spawners.
And is not worth for anyone to buy major cores anymore, unless they grind killing at possible public farms but who knows now. It's for sure worth a debate! Even if some people hopped on discord to with Pinguin to discuss possible solutions and for Pinguin to let us know what is possible with the spawner plugin and what we can do and ideas will be floating around and i'm sure something can be resolved to better the economy for newer players and also high end players to compete with each other when they get to a certain point. Love the server, most unique i've ever been on.
 

MrFishh29

New member
And is not worth for anyone to buy major cores anymore, unless they grind killing at possible public farms but who knows now. It's for sure worth a debate! Even if some people hopped on discord to with Pinguin to discuss possible solutions and for Pinguin to let us know what is possible with the spawner plugin and what we can do and ideas will be floating around and i'm sure something can be resolved to better the economy for newer players and also high end players to compete with each other when they get to a certain point. Love the server, most unique i've ever been on.
Like I said in the post we have run through situations and solutions, we are more than open to and welcome any conversations server admins would like to have. We understand the eco is delicate and that nothing should be done on a whim but we have numbers to support the solutions listed above.
 

MrFishh29

New member
Last night I was talking with another player about the pig spawner they repaired. They informed me it took 2 fragments and 100k to repair 1000 uses of their pig spawner.

Lets look at the math


1 frag lowest end = $200k
2 frags + $100k = $500k
$500k is the price to repair 1000 uses

Pigs drop $20 in loot
1000 uses x $20 = $20k
This player spent $500k to make $20k
They lost $480k by repairing

Math if this player wanted to fully repair the spawner (50k uses)

1000 uses x 50 repairs = 50k uses
50 (repairs) x 500k (cost per repair)
A pig spawner costs 25 million to repair it fully

50k uses of a pig spawner is only worth 1 million
50k x $20

This is a clear problem.
 

2Legiit4U

Ranked Player
Kingdom King
Kingdom Emperor
Since Kingdom Survivals economy is all Player-run economy the sudden change to spawners really messed it all up. I think it should be reverted to how it was before at least until all the other features of spawners have been properly fixed. For example, I have noticed from playing how to repair spawners it does not require a fixed amount of spawner fragments to repair but a random interval. I tested it out and repaired spawners randomly and sometimes it took 4,7,11 no matter # of spawns left.
 

LobCutie

Dedicated
This is a nice post and all but im confused as to what you want to get accomplished by it? Like what are you pointing out? Just the high cost of repairing?

A pig spawner costs 25 million to repair it fully
This is not true, the cost of repairing increases as spawns left decreases but it's not balanced to always cost the same no matter how many uses you have left (otherwise you'd have to pay a decimal of a fragment). You save more by repairing spawners fully than by repairing every 1000 uses. Let the spawner use all it's 50k uses and it should only be $250k and 4 fragments to repair.